Episode Transcript
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0:00
before we get started, started i want to take a moment to say
0:02
thank you i've received so
0:04
many about her last episode breathe
0:06
it was a really emotional show to make,
0:08
and i was pretty nervous about sharing
0:10
my story, but i've been really
0:12
moved by your kind words i
0:15
also heard from quite a a few people are dealing
0:17
similar issues around anxiety
0:19
i hope that in some small way, hearing
0:21
my story helps and that by talking about
0:23
these issues more openly we can normalize
0:26
them so thank you again to
0:28
everyone who wrote in it really does mean
0:30
a lot
0:40
we just reads a hundred and fifty episodes
0:43
and i still can't believe we've made it this far
0:46
to celebrate the occasion i wanted to pull back
0:48
the curtain of at last , you
0:50
heard a deeply personal story about my
0:52
life before this podcast this week
0:54
you'll hear part of a discussion i had with my friend
0:57
jordan over on his podcast the jordan
0:59
harbinger so now this episode
1:01
this gonna sound completely different than our
1:03
normal show it's a lot more conversational
1:06
and very fast paced but jordan
1:08
is but fantastic interviewer and does and
1:10
really great job of asking thoughtful questions
1:13
that people ask me about often in
1:15
this episode we cover a lot of different topics
1:18
what sound design is how it's used
1:20
in movie trailers whether analog sounds
1:22
better than digital deep sakes sonic
1:25
breeding and more it was more it
1:27
fun interview and i hope you'll enjoy
1:29
here's to run
1:34
i'm not sure people have heard of sound designers before
1:37
and they have they probably the same page i was before
1:39
this which is i as a pick the music for
1:41
a scene in a movie
1:48
then that's about it or maybe
1:50
they add like a punching sound of the punches
1:52
and loud enough in austin seen
1:57
obviously there's a lot more to it and
1:59
you're kind of part of his big magic trick is
2:02
the audience isn't thinking about what they hear but with
2:04
a c and if it were a drawing you'd be
2:06
saving it right with a pencil you're
2:08
spot on because i think a lot about sound design
2:10
as a slight of year because
2:12
we're essentially putting up a smokescreen
2:15
for what it actually sounds like and
2:17
so what does amazon or actually does
2:19
is just tons of a layers of stuff
2:22
i do a lot of trailers with big
2:24
blog the
2:27
boozers and
2:30
things that just get you totally hyped there's
2:35
just like a million sound effects categories
2:38
and layers to every single
2:40
piece of video or film or
2:42
television or add that we do so
2:44
when you look at two guys a trailer
2:46
that the like are i had the trailer is they're climbing
2:49
a mountain and it's really isolated
2:51
it's really snowy are you thinking in your
2:53
head where i make that whistling sound
2:55
that snow hitting snow on the top of a mountain
2:58
makes yes because when
3:00
doesn't sound good at all wind if
3:02
we just take like a sample of when
3:06
it sounds like white noise so
3:08
even you saying like top of a cold
3:11
mountain unlike that of like a fake
3:13
wind so every time it's cold i'm like don't
3:15
give me like the white noise wind i need
3:17
the wisley like performed when the side
3:23
and we got a perceive it that way as humans
3:25
but when you put a require microphone somewhere
3:28
some as a microphone does not capture
3:30
what your brain has interpreted it just
3:32
sounds like us and
3:34
there's really no no character or coldness
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to we didn't shoes and
3:39
craft the sounds and mold them to
3:41
have a character out of their own and so even
3:43
like with every environment that we do
3:45
or or foley or something it's all performances
3:47
were thinking a lot about what's
3:50
being said should be dissonant wind
3:52
is something dissonant happening on screen the
3:54
will even like effect choices based
3:56
off of the content of what we're trying to
3:58
make the viewer feel like
4:00
one thing i was thinking of was i think
4:02
it was free solo or maybe it was another movie
4:04
that i saw where somebody was climbing and
4:07
there's a scene where it might have even
4:09
been like mission impossible with those fake rock climbing
4:11
scenes of soccer is but in there's one was
4:13
hanging with one hand and i noticed
4:15
the wind got to hire hit
4:23
who would mean faster might also the
4:25
wind just happens to kick up even faster when
4:27
he sang by one hand and at the out on a they're trying
4:29
to get us to feel like it
4:32
is off balance and that things are happening
4:34
rapidly so they just speed the wind up in reality
4:37
there's probably no wind on this area
4:39
at all
4:40
his clothes aren't even really moving or anything
4:42
is is a yes like a magician what
4:45
a magician is doing is something that looks so
4:47
eloquent and clean in front of you
4:49
there's all this dirty work that happens
4:51
just in the shadow you can't see
4:53
it and everything which really fluid everything makes
4:55
sense but right underneath the surface there's a lot
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of work happening just a craft every
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microsecond that sound design as
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enjoy down design is very much
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like composing
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the real world
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in a lot of ways you know when we've also
5:09
had this this is a rich cinema history
5:12
that has taught us what these
5:14
things sound like as well which are not
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really real like when we're doing
5:18
footsteps on grass most of the time
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you know that like of the little like the yellow
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sweeper it looks like there's it's almost like
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say that this is the real standard
5:28
like broom most of the time
5:30
when we're just putting and footsteps that urban foliage
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or grass or whatever we're just crunching that as
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were watching the screen
5:38
just because it sounds so much more
5:40
distinct then a lotta times actually with dirt
5:42
a lot of always studios what does have like a little dirt
5:45
pit where i've seen him manipulate just little
5:47
tiny bits of dirt with their fingers
5:52
because it sounds more crispin clear in
5:54
also dirt is dirty so
5:57
like you know what to just are stomping around in a room and
5:59
kicking up dust
5:59
for people who don't know what fully is this is
6:02
well how do you even explain this i've seen it and studios
6:04
i'll rent a studio and i'll go why do you have
6:07
gravel and a small kitty
6:09
litter sandbox look in thing and
6:11
other all we do foley here too
6:13
this is making a sound that is supposed
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to be like footsteps hitting the ground like it is messing
6:17
with dirt accept the have to do it into a really
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high quality microphone and like you said
6:21
you don't want to just start make a huge mess
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in a room with thirty thousand dollar sound board
6:26
you have to have its or localized so
6:28
foley is essentially the sound
6:30
elements that a human in the
6:32
peace is touching whether it's with their hands
6:35
be could be their clothing and it could be their feet
6:37
generally now for we will kind of veer into
6:39
more unique sounds on sept because they have giant
6:42
rooms of junk but for the most
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part the core aspect of foley is
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done by humans in front of a screen in
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real time because what they're trying to do is
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all of those intangible moments
6:52
they're trying to perform
6:55
for they're actor it's like an extension
6:57
of what the actor is doing so we have bad foley
7:00
he can actually take away from the performance of the actor
7:02
i think that the confusion with solely as like why don't
7:04
you just go to a library fine footsteps
7:07
and than kind of sink them sink there always
7:09
job is to be a very performative
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art because if you just put in stocks
7:14
footsteps
7:18
even the way we walk can vary
7:20
greatly isn't like if you're mad at your partner
7:22
something you want to stomp away that's
7:26
a different performance father stop
7:29
then i don't know someone just a
7:31
you know you ever seen in a long time arrives at your front door
7:37
so you know we talk about like environments
7:40
but there are these kind of funny sounds that they're kind of funny
7:42
to me because they're so overtly trying to like
7:44
have sex you yeah i'm thinking things like in a trailer
7:46
were you here like a blob you know are
7:48
we ever going to get their plan maybe
7:51
some and in some like a line
7:54
that's light a little piece of what's
7:56
going to happen in the movie alibi like a whole
7:58
reimagine the eighties
8:00
crack in a new way of kind
8:02
of spooky flight the building blocks
8:04
of a trailer and so like hits
8:07
and shimmers in
8:09
xingu than
8:12
those things are used just so
8:14
liberally and advertising just a like reach
8:16
into your like prime all brain
8:18
and try to pull on that fear response as
8:20
you describe that i'm like okay
8:22
, standing on us open
8:24
plains dystopian skyline in
8:27
the distance last two slugs
8:29
split second of an ass and seen one alien
8:31
is like missing out towards them later on
8:33
in the movie ticket
8:35
jokes actually for centers durham bees
8:38
and that loud yet at love like fog horn
8:40
that's not quite that's foghorn things to some version
8:42
of yeah for of while yeah a
8:47
and so it is funny because it's
8:49
almost predictably cliche and yet
8:51
if you find a trailer that doesn't have that job
8:53
didn't do your job or adrian in this decade
8:56
anyway yeah exactly as the on until we get
8:58
sick of that because everyone uses it many have to find
9:00
something else there's a good reason for it
9:02
and this is what's so fascinating just without
9:04
sound design to me is like a lot
9:06
of this stuff may seem like oh that's scary sam
9:08
was put it in but a lot of the stuff is very
9:11
much psychological it's
9:13
playing off of our primal
9:15
urges and feelings were living
9:17
in like the future right now this is our
9:20
ancestors would see this like we're live in legit
9:22
in the future now even were
9:24
couple generations ago the
9:26
lifestyle for all of human history
9:28
before that was a lot different hunter
9:30
gatherer basic needs things like that the
9:33
like when we put a nice hits our
9:35
brains are still living in a thousand years
9:37
ago you know what we're getting there but like they're so
9:39
many things in the way that we do things it's just
9:42
our brains are prepared for anxiety
9:44
situations he a public speaking things
9:46
like that they found that's a thing
9:48
that you can kind of play off of enough you're
9:50
not creepy old house and you hear
9:52
one little twig break or something
9:54
in the middle the night your brain go straight to there's
9:56
a robber and i'm in
9:59
in wilde is just pure how settling your something like that
10:02
the lot of those sounds are really just trying to like
10:04
hit you in those places that are
10:06
kind of the primitive brain to make you
10:09
feel these like really
10:11
responses that you they would naturally have
10:13
what is very much like a magic trick mix with neuroscience
10:17
now i argue that we've gone so far
10:19
in the epic direction especially with like superhero
10:21
movies and things like that that it's becoming a super
10:23
cliche saying even if we rewind
10:26
a decade or two ago do you remember when trailers
10:28
were just like jack murtha
10:30
julie and the coffee shop and as well
10:32
as stuff that happens the movie that cut
10:35
together as together as that has since cut to
10:37
get with a narrator now we've hit this like
10:39
the two thousand and ten plus
10:41
cliche of the bargain a little tired
10:43
of which is is that overly epic everything
10:46
that in crafting a mini story or whatnot but
10:48
you know what it's marketing there's a lot
10:50
of money involved were try to get five
10:52
hundred million dollars out of a movie they're
10:55
gonna probably throw everything they can at
10:57
it
11:06
coming up i give my take on some of the biggest
11:09
sonic questions out there questions like
11:11
is analog really better than digital
11:14
what makes a great sonic logo how
11:16
to noise cancelling headphones actually work
11:19
and how will society deal with the rise
11:21
of audio deep takes welcoming
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right
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that was the predators clicking sound
12:53
from the nineteen eighty seven movie starring arnold
12:55
schwarzenegger voice actor peter cullen
12:57
came up with the sounds for the predator speaking
13:00
at a convention he said that the sound was inspired
13:02
by a horseshoe crab he saw dying
13:04
on a beach when he was a kid
13:06
rom and horseshoe crab was coming oldest
13:08
crackling sounds bubble
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is coming out that are bursting
13:16
so i thought okay
13:22
anyway here's this episodes mystery
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solved
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if you know what that sound is submit
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your guests at the web address mystery
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dot twenty k dot org anyone
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who guess is that right will be entered to win a
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super soft twenty thousand hertz t-shirt
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we just reached our hundred
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and fiftieth episode to mark the
14:54
occasion i sat down with my friend jordan
14:56
harbinger to talk about sound design movie
14:58
trailers this podcast and more
15:01
jordan also asked me about some of the most
15:03
important questions and sound today including
15:06
the neverending debate over analog
15:08
vs digital
15:11
when people say
15:14
analog sounds better than digital is that
15:16
kind of a guess i am not really
15:18
in the camp that analog sounds better
15:20
than digital but what i will concede
15:23
that a way that we approached music
15:25
in the analog era was much
15:27
more active than how we approach music
15:30
in the digital era and what i mean by
15:32
that is like where do you had a cassette
15:34
tapes or a record
15:38
you had to like dig through benz to
15:40
find something that you may or may not be able to listen
15:42
to you look at the artwork you go through
15:44
it he pull it out you go buy it you're
15:46
invested in listening to this you have like skyn
15:49
in the game for this thing southern when
15:51
you put this record on your like
15:53
trainings your body and mind
15:55
to think about it and engage with
15:58
it he only have so many of them i can only
16:00
a few of them is i'm i'm i didn't even like but i've listened
16:02
to because that's all i had the thing that we
16:04
lost in the transition from analog to digital
16:06
is that approach because now it's
16:09
like everything is so disposable this i don't like
16:11
something in two seconds i can step
16:22
so we get lighter big series
16:24
of big singles and music that now
16:26
being made for that style
16:28
of just like almost click bait type
16:30
i mean still amazing music being made that
16:33
i think that's the thing that like bums me out the most
16:35
is that we just don't approach even
16:37
listening to music with the same
16:39
level of skin and the game as we did
16:41
when they're analog mediums so i would really say
16:44
they sound better or worse i just think
16:46
that our minds were more conscious about
16:48
listening therefore that's
16:50
a big reason why i think analog
16:52
sounds better because we're more primed for
16:54
it looking at new devices like noise
16:57
cancelling headphones which i really like they
16:59
create a bunch of different sounds probably that i can't hear
17:01
that site will actually how do those words
17:03
a simple answer is that there's a little
17:05
microphone that recording everything outside
17:08
and coming in and it's instantaneously
17:12
the whipping the signal so think
17:14
about like what you'd consider like our sine
17:16
wave or just for anybody who's like have ever seen just like
17:18
audio waves like think of audio ways
17:20
in your brain you think about a line that goes
17:23
up and there's a line in the middle and in that line
17:25
crosses and it goes down and that comes back and
17:27
meet in the middle that a sine wave it's the most pure
17:29
tone the
17:32
when i think about the same way the what
17:34
happens is as if we're recording that sine
17:36
wave what happens in the noise cancelling is immediately
17:39
is slipping the seas that's where
17:41
the generating and opposite signal
17:44
to the signal that's coming in so therefore
17:46
in theory if you have the waveform
17:48
going up in the same way form going down a
17:50
cancels out to nothing so that's
17:53
even if you've ever worked in audio or anything
17:55
like that if you just simply take be audio
17:57
put another piece audio slipped assays on it
17:59
it will go to silence for yeah that's essentially
18:02
how that works so if i'm
18:04
cancelling out a really loud sound
18:06
does that mean i'm just playing another really loud
18:09
but opposite sound into my ear
18:11
yeah there's a lot of debate on that i've talked
18:13
to bows directly about that specific saying
18:15
the ideas that you still don't want to be
18:17
slamming doors around noise cancelling headphones
18:20
because what you're here is the noise cancelling
18:22
will sail the a lot of times
18:24
like if i have headphones on and maybe i
18:26
say amador you'll actually series disengage
18:29
here like a quickie digital thing
18:32
because it is it keep up with that level of
18:34
volume to the so fast the
18:37
actually doing cancel out by the time it's hitting your
18:39
ear at the same time bows
18:41
and these companies would say you don't use these for hearing
18:43
protection so i'm sure there's a lot of nuance
18:45
to that what do you think of deep sake
18:48
sound i'm this is fresh and my mind because
18:50
i just saw that the lenski the president
18:52
of ukraine that was there a russian deep sake
18:54
of him saying all were surrendering lay down
18:56
your weapons and you know the russians are gonna
18:59
you prisoner and it'll all be good and fine ukraine's
19:03
no use nuclear more the president
19:05
them away bullshit the and
19:09
it didn't fool anyone because the ukrainians
19:11
have been seeing russian disinformation for a really long
19:14
time and so has it all of eastern europe for that
19:16
matter but they can do pretty
19:18
impressive deep sake voices the
19:21
videos not going to be too much further away with in
19:23
terms of processing power and the ability to do that
19:25
in the next few years in a convincing way
19:28
these deep think voices i
19:30
haven't seen what adobe has
19:32
said they have and so what they have
19:35
because they won't release it to the public right for
19:37
good reason because it's just gonna create all kinds
19:39
of chaos i predicted that they were going to make
19:41
a politician i dare say something
19:43
that they would never say that see the racist
19:45
or a big gas or a policy change i didn't
19:47
think they would have a president surrender in a war
19:49
but it's the most obvious used for this kind of technology
19:52
but with vocals it's really gonna be hard
19:54
to detect can we trust our years
19:56
now
19:57
this moment maybe
20:00
so i did a show on this an eye
20:02
test the team and i was like i want my voice for
20:04
the first minute men and a half to be as convincing
20:06
as possible but it's not me wait , minute
20:08
what's what's going on here i was in the middle
20:10
of saying something sorry but who are you
20:13
on dallas taylor know i'm
20:15
dallas taylor no i think you'll
20:17
find i in dallas
20:19
so to do that we worked with when the guess
20:21
in the guest even was very concerned
20:24
about telling us exactly how was done
20:26
like we never really got an answer of the actual
20:29
ways it was done but essentially the
20:31
said send me three hours of your narration
20:34
there's nothing else and then i'm gonna
20:36
push it through some supercomputer it is gonna do
20:38
a lot ai stuff and machine learning then
20:41
that's gonna make this thing in a more audio
20:43
the better with this is all this nuanced than it does take
20:45
a long time to make a convincing so we
20:47
did that food a lot of people with the intro
20:49
not being me so the experiment
20:51
was like can i convince people who been
20:53
listening to all of these shows that i am not real
20:56
him and i think it did a good job the show was
20:58
called deep they dallas so any kind of are tipped
21:00
off right off the bat so i think that you can kind of get
21:02
it but if you're just if you didn't mean look at the title i think
21:04
it's really convincing even when we make
21:06
episodes now we put in a deep fake
21:08
voice of me we have the words per minute
21:10
my cadence all that stuff and we can build out
21:13
the show i can approach it
21:15
as an outsider and then craft it it
21:17
before actually come to it so there's really
21:19
interesting uses for deep take like that i
21:22
would never use it on the show but just like a tool to
21:24
put me in the seat of the listener rather than
21:26
me being the seat of the host which is
21:28
a different perspective but will it
21:30
get better of yeah it's gonna it's
21:32
gonna keep getting better
21:33
i haven't
21:34
heard a lot of deep sakes that are super
21:36
convincing yet where the pitfalls are
21:39
is in a motion and i know that's the next
21:41
frontier were when i'm speaking
21:43
right now yup i'm going down
21:45
everything has meaning i'm communicating
21:48
meaning in the way that i'm singing so that's like
21:50
the difference between what
21:52
the machine is doing now versus
21:55
where it's trying to go and can you get
21:57
the machine to understand the context in
21:59
a motion the that's gonna be the thing
22:01
that makes that more convincing and it will
22:03
be able to pick out in the source audio
22:05
when someone's happy or
22:07
the quirks that they do i mean i have voice courts
22:09
you have voice clerks that you just know are you
22:12
the like the way that we sing are words is
22:14
complex and will get better
22:16
yeah it will
22:18
yeah to the point where i can be used against
22:20
us especially when you're talking
22:22
about nation states i cannot think the nation
22:25
state law russia or
22:27
iran or the united states would have
22:29
any qualms about grabbing adobe software the
22:31
like listen what we're going to do with us we're going to make the ayatollah
22:34
said is horrible thing and we're gonna play it for everybody in
22:36
iran and it's gonna take the political system
22:38
over there in a way that we can have that desirable
22:40
for us that the almost for sure
22:42
already happening the undetectable
22:45
or were very close to that point and we won't
22:47
know until later that something is foot
22:49
you're wondering i find interesting is that social
22:51
media and how much that is important
22:54
to politicians now i think it's going to be a combating
22:56
effect of that you know if you have the talking
22:59
head in front of a podium and that's all
23:01
of the communication comes from the white house
23:03
press room welcome everyone to the white
23:05
house you have a lot of data that
23:07
you can make sound just like that would
23:10
you have someone like the whiskey or whatever going
23:12
out and just showing him doing this and
23:14
doing that and being in the world and in just a terrible
23:16
microphone on the phone or whatever that's
23:18
gonna be protection with deep lake because that's
23:21
gonna be hard when you're trying to not only
23:23
get the cadence right in all this stuff and edit that's
23:25
your thing we forget about the brakes i'm a sound
23:28
designer i'm a sound editor i couldn't
23:30
not only get a deep fake but i could
23:32
adjust to in ways and then added it to
23:34
make it exactly the way that i want me as well
23:36
we didn't are so we did a deep sake but we did like
23:38
five takes a deep aches and stop six the best
23:41
ones so i think that like part of the way to combat
23:43
that is putting yourself in
23:45
situations where it's just not as easy
23:47
to do that you're out in the open if your
23:50
social media style that's going to be
23:52
detectable there's a lot of complexities
23:55
in sound design to not only deep sake the performance
23:57
but then also get the environments right because i think
23:59
a lot of hurt even like me i think i'd be
24:01
able to pick out most if i really analyze
24:04
how it sounds
24:05
sonic branding is interesting read the second
24:07
i give you an example the intel inside sound
24:09
right
24:12
when you see those commercials everybody
24:14
knows what that sound is the second they hear
24:17
it they're looking at the logo in their head
24:19
in so this is up a
24:21
brilliant play because you can evoke
24:23
a branded logo or animation
24:26
into my head with a sound even if there's
24:28
no screen anywhere near you what
24:30
else is going on masonic granting they can't be the only
24:32
reason they do this
24:34
when netflix leaned
24:36
into that and made a sonic brand that was
24:38
there all the time i felt like that was a moment
24:41
in history where really started to explode
24:43
many more companies started going what's
24:45
the reasoning for this we're very
24:47
visual creatures and general so like
24:49
a logo seems to make a lot of sense artwork
24:51
makes a lot of sense with sound
24:54
we just don't think about it a lot so we don't get what what
24:56
does it matter what something sounds like if you
24:58
walk into like your grandmother's house and
25:00
you smell that dish that only
25:02
she makes or that baking
25:04
that only she did that just washes
25:07
you with nostalgia in good feelings
25:10
so when you think of something like you know netflix
25:12
which netflix considered the most iconic sonic
25:14
branding out there the call
25:16
to action that says you're done put your phone
25:18
down you're about to watch something incredible
25:20
your brain unconsciously as thinking
25:23
about this because you know hopefully are watching stuff
25:25
that has a consistency of entertaining you
25:27
if you have that positive association
25:29
than that sound is essentially
25:31
training you to go and stop
25:33
with things
25:37
it was interesting about that particular thing
25:39
is when i was it was actually the first time that the
25:41
company had ever spoken on on it so
25:44
speaking with todd yelling who would lead the effort
25:46
at netflix they were exploring all these different
25:48
options in when they were kind of putting
25:50
this in front of audiences there was another option
25:53
that i found hilarious is that they
25:55
wanted to kind of evoke the old leo
25:57
the lion idea you know m g m
26:02
they wanted this to feel like a big cinematic moment
26:05
so they thought a lot about animals being
26:07
a part of at are having some sort of call and response
26:09
in there the thing that i learned out of that
26:11
logo that just kind of blew my mind as
26:13
he said there was almost a goat bleat
26:16
in that so yeah and i was like
26:18
i don't believe you and he was like you can
26:20
hear at the pr person played it straight
26:22
off of their phone they said no joke this is exactly what you
26:25
what we were doing and it sounded exactly like the
26:27
netflix logo it was just like this
26:31
ah
26:33
the ingredients of this are really interesting
26:35
i don't understand that a life of me how people
26:37
come up with the idea on how to make a sound but
26:39
that's why you guys do what you do because
26:41
it's not something that i can just that anybody can
26:44
pick up and do randomly i think
26:46
there is this assumption that a sonic brain is a cool
26:48
sound that is just the opposite i
26:50
would say that the thing that takes us the longest
26:52
out of everything we do is sonic branding
26:55
the shorter the sound the longer
26:57
it takes on this thing can take months the
27:00
reason it takes months is because every one of the sonic
27:02
brands mean something deeply that's
27:04
one of the reasons i started the podcast is because
27:06
there are these incredibly nuance stories
27:09
behind of why things sound the way that
27:11
they do that are just going to be lost to
27:13
history dallas taylor thank you so much man
27:15
thank you
27:20
this episode was part of a longer conversation
27:22
i had with jordan we also talked about jingles
27:25
a as them or movie dialogue and more
27:27
you can hear the full episode on the jordan harbinger
27:30
show over there jordan talks
27:32
to all kinds of fascinating people from
27:34
legendary artists to intelligence operatives
27:37
to star athletes recent guests
27:39
include basketball phenomenon to wins wade
27:41
psychologist steven pinker and journalist
27:43
anderson cooper in these interviews
27:46
they break down exactly what they do and
27:48
how they do at jordan is a great
27:50
interviewer and it's always fascinating
27:52
and insightful so go take a minute
27:55
to go subscribe to the jordan harvard you're so
27:57
right here in your podcast player
28:00
twenty thousand hertz has produced out of the studios
28:02
of de facto found for some tasty sonic
28:04
snacks follow de facto sound on instagram
28:07
this , was created in association with podcast
28:10
once my team is jen harbinger jace
28:12
sanderson robert forbid he merely ocampo
28:14
ian baird just ballard and gabriel
28:16
miss right before we go
28:19
i want to extend a huge thank you
28:21
to all of our listeners for supporting us engaging
28:23
with us and helping us get this far
28:26
your support and enthusiasm really
28:28
means the world to us and we couldn't
28:30
have done it without you here's
28:32
to another hundred and sixty
28:47
before we go a quick reminder about
28:49
micro hurts over on twenty thousand hertz plus
28:52
the first episode first episode now and it's about
28:54
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28:57
we've got tons of other fun plans for micro
28:59
hurts including q and a's interviews
29:01
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